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Chronomodra
 26 Sep 2008, 13:51 #44838 Reply To Post
Quick question/survey for everyone:

Joe stumbled over a rock. He fell to the ground.

If you wanted to combine these two sentences, would you use:

And: Joe stumbled over a rock, and fell to the ground.
Then: Joe stumbled over a rock, then fell to the ground.
And Then: Joe stumbled over a rock, and then fell to the ground.

Please provide your reasoning, as well.
This post was last edited by Chronomodra, 26 Sep 2008, 13:51
-----------------------------
-Chro
Author of Blades of the Fallen and The Spirit Shifter
And blogger of Journey of the Scribe
jacobea
 26 Sep 2008, 14:40 #44840 Reply To Post
Not sure if it's grammatically correct or whatever, but i'd personally put:

"Joe stumbled over a rock, falling to the ground."

Although to choose from the three options, it'd be, "Then: Joe stumbled over a rock, then fell to the ground." It sounds speedier that way, more like an action shot, to me at least.
Nix
 26 Sep 2008, 14:44 #44841 Reply To Post
Neither, probably...

Stumbling over a rock, Joe fell to the ground.
Chronomodra
 26 Sep 2008, 14:51 #44842 Reply To Post
Well, I was simply trying to give an example. My main question is, in sequences of events, do you use 'and', 'then', or 'and then'?
-----------------------------
-Chro
Author of Blades of the Fallen and The Spirit Shifter
And blogger of Journey of the Scribe
dogeared
 26 Sep 2008, 19:30 #44866 Reply To Post
Quote: Chronomodra, Friday, 26 Sep 2008 14:51
Well, I was simply trying to give an example. My main question is, in sequences of events, do you use 'and', 'then', or 'and then'?


I would avoid using 'and then' unless trying to emphasise something or in dialogue.

Seems like a case of omitting needless words by dropping one or the other.
MLT
 26 Sep 2008, 20:13 #44867 Reply To Post
I would prefer 'Joe stumbled over a rock and fell to the ground', without a comma after rock. I see no need to use 'then' because it is obvious that he wouldn't have fallen to the ground before he stumbled over the rock.
slavandria
 26 Sep 2008, 20:21 #44868 Reply To Post
"then" is sort of like "that". If the sentence can stand alone without them, don't use them.

I like the one example earlier - "Jim stumbled over the rock and fell to the ground." If you can simplify the sentences like this I say do it. Otherwise, I'd try not to "list" the actions. (I am cleaning up my own ms from this sort of thing. )
Jen

"There are books of which the backs and covers are by far the best parts." Charles Dickens
fisher
 28 Sep 2008, 11:06 #44981 Reply To Post
Hi,

If you wanted to combine the clauses using 'and' then there is no comma. Because the two verb phrases are part of the same unit - what's called a compound predicate.

So you would have:

Joe stumbled over a rock and fell to the ground.

Which is by far the simplest construction. 'Then' has a kind of separating effect. This happened 'and then' this happened. And I don't think that's appropriate here. The events are too closely linked.

Of course the context is also important. And as long as there is no risk of confusion, then it is a matter of style.

Imagine this:

She punched him and kicked him and tortured him. And then she killed him.

You could also write it as a list:

She punched him, kicked him, tortured him, and killed him.

(with or without the final comma)

(Or, for a more pacey read, without the 'him's:
She punched, kicked, tortured and killed him.)

In the list form, it seems the killing occurred more immediately on the heels of the torture. Whereas the first version ('and then'), IMO, sounds like he was made to suffer just that little bit longer.

Both are right, but I prefer the first. It adds weight to the kill. But it depends what effect you are going for.

Also.

Compare the first version first version:

She punched him and kicked him and tortured him. And then she killed him.

to a variation without 'then':

She punched him and kicked him and tortured him. And she killed him.

Here, the 'then' has a nice rhythmic quality. It just sounds, to my ear, more pleasing.

I struggle with grammar, but I'm constantly googling and reading up on it. And I'm getting the hang gradually. You need to do this so you can explore all the options without worrying about making an elementary cock up that might put off an agent.

Hope this helps
Fisher










This post was last edited by fisher, 28 Sep 2008, 11:09
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